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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit
Posted by: Andy Jones
Date/Time: 02/07/18 16:16:00

I never disputed that many Remain campaigners and, indeed the Government's material on the issue equated leaving the EU with leaving the single market. I suspect they deliberately did so to raise the stakes in the referendum. This doesn't change the fact that many leading leavers believed it would be possible to leave the EU and remain in the single market and many voters did too. It was only when the EU made its position on the four freedoms absolutely clear that many Brexiteers realised that if they wanted to end freedom of movement for EU workers then the single market had to be sacrificed. For most this enlightenment did not arrive until after the vote.

It may be correct to say that most of the people who voted Leave also had a firm belief that this entailed leaving the single market but a significant number (significant at least in the sense of the size of the majority) held no such view or positively wished to stay in the single market. 

I don't recall the Irish border issue being mentioned in debates although it may well have been. It certainly was never front and centre of discussions as a key issue as it currently is. I never gave it the slightest thought in casting my vote and that would probably be the same for 99% of the electorate without an Irish connection.

The problem I have with your assertion that this can be sorted out 'fairly easily' is that nobody outside the wing of the Tory party advocating Brexit believes this is possible. We don't know the nature of the trading arrangement we will have yet with the rest of Europe but I think it is naive to talk in small scale evasion. I have a friend who grew up close to the border between the north and south of Ireland and the point he makes is that there isn't really a natural border between the two areas. You can be driving along the same road and cross the border several times without being aware. Many people have land which straddles the border. It is basically impossible to police effectively.

He says that prior to EU entry the only people with real wealth where he lived were people involved in smuggling. Fortunes were built by arbitraging differences but you had to bribe the police on both sides as well as the paramilitaries which is why this became such an important source of revenue for them. With the advent of the EU most of the arbitrage differences disappeared and this led to a fall in criminality in general and funding for terrorism in particular. He points out that in many cases people who were involved in paramilitary organisations are now tied up with organised crime and would leap at the opportunity if the border hardened.

Basically the further apart the EU and the UK are in terms of a customs arrangement the more opportunities will be presented to those who seek to illegally exploit these differences. The idea that a few cameras could sort all this out simply isn't credible. 








Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 09:20:00 Andy Jones
   Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 11:35:00 Graham Weeks
      Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 13:35:00 Paul Scullion
         Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 13:38:00 Graham Weeks
            Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 13:41:00 Paul Scullion
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 13:48:00 Simon Deakin
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 15:48:00 Peter Chadburn
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 17:44:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 14:23:00 Paul James
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 18:28:00 Graham Weeks
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 18:26:00 Graham Weeks
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit25/06/18 23:18:00 Paul Scullion
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 05:29:00 Graham Weeks
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 06:11:00 Colin Goodman
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 06:45:00 Graham Weeks
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 09:20:00 Peter Chadburn
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 09:50:00 Graham Weeks
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 09:59:00 Graham Weeks
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 10:05:00 Peter Chadburn
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 10:12:00 Graham Weeks
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 10:04:00 Andy Jones
      Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 14:22:00 Paul James
         Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit26/06/18 14:30:00 Peter Chadburn
            Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit27/06/18 11:01:00 Vlod Barchuk
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit27/06/18 11:28:00 Paul Webster
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit27/06/18 14:33:00 Peter Chadburn
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit28/06/18 10:42:00 Andy Jones
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit28/06/18 10:57:00 Peter Chadburn
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit02/07/18 13:01:00 Vlod Barchuk
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit02/07/18 16:16:00 Andy Jones
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 09:57:00 Paul James
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 09:53:00 Paul James
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 11:19:00 Paul Webster
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 11:27:00 Paul James
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 17:23:00 Graham Weeks
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit04/07/18 07:27:00 Paul James
   Re:The Will of the People and Brexit28/06/18 10:17:00 Nick Foote
      Re:The Will of the People and Brexit28/06/18 15:01:00 Stuart Green
         Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit30/06/18 18:15:00 Rosa Popham
            Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit30/06/18 22:17:00 Graham Weeks
            Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit01/07/18 10:08:00 Andy Jones
               Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 10:00:00 Paul James
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 16:33:00 Thelma Leach
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 17:05:00 Graham Weeks
            Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 10:15:00 Paul James
               Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 17:09:00 Graham Weeks
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit03/07/18 22:52:00 Paul James
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit04/07/18 06:28:00 Graham Weeks
            Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit04/07/18 13:45:00 Nick Foote
         Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit30/06/18 22:42:00 Peter Chadburn
            Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit30/06/18 22:51:00 Graham Weeks
               Re:Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit30/06/18 23:40:00 Peter Chadburn
            Re:Re:Re:The Will of the People and Brexit01/07/18 12:07:00 Peter Yale
               The will of the dead people02/07/18 09:35:00 Graham Southworth
                  Re:The will of the dead people04/07/18 13:51:00 Nick Foote
                     Re:Re:The will of the dead people04/07/18 17:21:00 Graham Weeks
                        Re:Re:The will of the dead people05/07/18 11:21:00 Sue Rowe
                           Re:Re:Re:The will of the dead people05/07/18 12:14:00 Graham Weeks
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:The will of the dead people05/07/18 14:03:00 Rosa Popham
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:The will of the dead people05/07/18 16:42:00 Andy Jones
                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The will of the dead people06/07/18 00:26:00 Peter Chadburn
                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The will of the dead people06/07/18 10:13:00 Paul James
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The will of the dead people06/07/18 11:11:00 Peter Chadburn
                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:The will of the dead people06/07/18 18:52:00 Graham Weeks
                                          Reply10/07/18 10:09:00 Stuart Green
                                             Re:Reply11/07/18 15:58:00 Paul James

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