Forum Message

Topic: Reply
Posted by: Gordon Southwell
Date/Time: 27/04/21 12:44:00

Paul, it might seem like it but I wasn't being obtuse on the issue of self selection, I really didn't understand the point you were making. The way you are trying to define it is not the way it would normally be understood. To be self-selecting the universe of data collection points would have to have an inherent bias for instance if CAMTAG had chosen to poll parking permit holders. As they would be more likely to be car owners you might assume that they would be more likely to be against LTNs. This is not the case for a survey pool of all households.

I think it is fair to assume most people who had a strong opinion either way on LTNs and received the leaflet would have completed it. I know some people are very protective of private data and may choose not to give their details to a third party but there is no reason to think how you felt about transport policy has any bearing on this so it is a neutral factor. It would be perverse not to fill in a survey that might have a significant bearing on the outcome of the LTN trial even if you had reservations of its provenance. That you have seen someone on Twitter saying that this is what they did is unlikely to signify this kind of response was widespread. If you believe it was then you would have to allow for the Commonplace survey significantly understating the level of opposition to LTNs because people would have refused to fill it in for similar reasons.

On the issue of what you said about Commonplace I have reread it and would still advise caution. It could be deemed that you are implying something that is actionable i.e. that Commonplace is not fit for purpose. It would be sensible to confirm that what you described was not gaming per se but people encouraging those of like mind to respond and it was impossible to game the system in a way that critically undermined the value of the consultation and the confidence we can have in its response.

I can accept your point about there being an element of unfairness of only one form being allowed per household but this would have not skewed the result in any particular direction. The limitation makes the results easier to audit and therefore should give you more comfort that they are accurate.

You are right that we are not getting the whole picture. The headline results of these surveys and consultations do not allow for nuanced views. For instance someone I know in LTN21 says she really likes it because the traffic has been significantly reduced in her road but she is aware that it has mainly moved to a neighbouring street and therefore felt guilty about completing the survey so didn't do so. However, while we may not have full focus, we do have a pretty well defined outline which shows as it stands there is overwhelming opposition to the scheme.

As I've said before the cause of sustainable transport would be better served by you accepting this as a fact but looking at the detail of the results to see where support does exist for measures. If you don't do that, the likely outcome is that the LTNs will be scrapped in their entirety as has happened in other boroughs. 




Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 18:53:00 Paul James
   Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 19:28:00 Simon Hayes
      Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 19:31:00 Paul James
   Reply21/04/21 19:31:00 Gordon Southwell
      Re:Reply21/04/21 19:52:00 Simon Hayes
   Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:04:00 Peter Yale
      Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:12:00 Paul James
         Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:14:00 Simon Hayes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:17:00 N V Brooks
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:19:00 Paul James
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:25:00 Peter Yale
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:30:00 N V Brooks
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:33:00 Simon Hayes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:54:00 N V Brooks
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:57:00 Simon Hayes
                              Reply21/04/21 21:43:00 Gordon Southwell
                                 Re:Reply21/04/21 22:15:00 N V Brooks
                                    Re:Re:Reply21/04/21 23:15:00 Simon Hayes
                                       Re:Re:Re:Reply21/04/21 23:28:00 Colin Goodman
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 07:16:00 Mark Evans
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 09:03:00 Simon Hayes
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 09:31:00 Mark Evans
                                       Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 09:45:00 Paul James
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 09:48:00 Simon Hayes
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 10:15:00 Keith Iddon
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:07:00 Kevin Wilson
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 13:11:00 N V Brooks
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 10:21:00 Paul James
                                                Reply22/04/21 10:32:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                   Re:Reply22/04/21 11:29:00 Paul James
                                                      Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 11:39:00 N V Brooks
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 12:00:00 Paul James
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 14:56:00 N V Brooks
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 11:46:00 Paul James
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:06:00 N V Brooks
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:14:00 Paul James
                                                                        Reply23/04/21 12:26:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:39:00 N V Brooks
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:43:00 Paul James
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:51:00 N V Brooks
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 13:00:00 Paul James
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 13:02:00 N V Brooks
                                                                                       Reply23/04/21 14:14:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Reply30/04/21 19:05:00 Philippa Bond
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply01/05/21 14:50:00 N V Brooks
                                                      Reply22/04/21 12:02:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:22:00 Simon Hayes
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:38:00 Paul James
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:47:00 Simon Hayes
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 07:34:00 Paul James
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 07:53:00 Simon Hayes
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 08:20:00 Mark Evans
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 08:27:00 Simon Hayes
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 09:19:00 Paul James
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 10:10:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 11:23:00 Paul James
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 11:48:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:07:00 Paul James
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:34:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:47:00 Paul James
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:57:00 N V Brooks
                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 14:09:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 08:10:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 08:36:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 09:21:00 Paul James
                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 09:22:00 Paul James
                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 09:49:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 07:35:00 Paul James
                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 07:50:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 08:11:00 Paul James
                                                                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 08:45:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                         Reply25/04/21 08:46:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                                                            Re:Reply26/04/21 12:09:00 Paul James
                                                                                                               Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 12:55:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 13:34:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 14:50:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 15:10:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 15:17:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 15:22:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 15:36:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 16:49:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                               Reply26/04/21 15:51:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                                                                  Re:Reply26/04/21 16:07:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
                                                                                                                  Re:Reply26/04/21 17:15:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                     Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 17:24:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                     Reply26/04/21 17:42:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                                                                        Re:Reply27/04/21 09:49:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                           Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 10:10:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 10:21:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 10:57:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                           Reply27/04/21 12:44:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 13:41:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 13:44:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 13:46:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 13:56:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 14:00:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 14:02:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 16:53:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
                                                                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 17:58:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 14:04:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 15:07:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 16:11:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 16:12:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 16:54:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 17:05:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 17:18:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 21:33:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 22:37:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 23:16:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply28/04/21 12:11:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply28/04/21 12:17:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply28/04/21 22:44:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                                     Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 17:47:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 10:42:00 Paul James
                                                                                                            Re:Reply26/04/21 15:38:00 Paul James
                                                                                                               Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 16:28:00 Simon Hayes
   Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday22/04/21 12:06:00 Paul James
      Reply22/04/21 12:19:00 Gordon Southwell
         Re:Reply22/04/21 12:35:00 Peter Chadburn
            Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:00:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
               Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 14:59:00 N V Brooks
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 16:16:00 Simon Hayes
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 16:24:00 Mark Evans
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 16:41:00 Simon Hayes
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 17:51:00 Mark Evans
                              Re: Bel and LTNs27/04/21 22:32:00 Leslie Bailey
   Reply28/04/21 15:50:00 Christine Mulligan
      Come on Paul James!28/04/21 19:08:00 Simon Hayes
         Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 07:55:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
            Re:Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 11:18:00 N V Brooks
               Re:Re:Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 13:47:00 Rosco White
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 15:19:00 Simon Hayes
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 17:54:00 Rosco White
                        Re:Come on Paul James!30/04/21 14:08:00 Simon Hayes

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