Forum Message

Topic: Reply
Posted by: Gordon Southwell
Date/Time: 26/04/21 15:51:00

Paul, thanks for your response. It is appreciated.

On the question of whether the CAMTAG survey can be deemed comprehensive, although I am not a market research professional, I'm pretty confident that by any industry benchmark it would considered to be. Leaflet campaigns and surveys undertaken for firms I have worked for and I've seen the analysis of the results never got anywhere near that level of response. Returns of less than one per cent were not unusual. As I've said previously you factor in a very high level of wastage in leaflet campaigns because a huge proportion will be thrown away unread. 23% is a notably high number and way higher than you would need to safely assume the returns are representative of the whole subset you were surveying  in this case the residents of LTN21.

Given the size of the distribution and the number of returns it would be assumed for the purposes of analysis that a dataset of over a thousand would be a pretty infallible guide to the overall result as the chances of any outliers or specific distortions would be ruled out.

Of course, it is not independent or audited in any way so you could still claim the returns were simply made up and discount this survey. However, it would be unwise of you to do the same for the Commonplace consultation.

You are probably aware of the association of Peter Mason the Ealing councillor with the company that supplies the Commonplace software. It was a controversial decision to use this company but it would be an utter scandal if the application was as deficient as you claim it to be. A large amount of taxpayer money has been spent on this system and if it is not fit for purpose something needs to be done immediately.

If you have sound reasons for saying that you believe the Commonplace system has 'clearly been gamed' you urgently need to outline them here and inform Ealing Council and Commonplace about weaknesses you have identified. If you can't provide some backup for your claim you risk a potentially expensive dispute with the company who will say your allegations will reduce their revenues.

To my non-expert eyes the system does seem to have processes to stop manipulation that are quite robust. I haven't done a 'deep-dive' into the comments for a while but looked at a significant number a few months ago and there seem to be no pattern to the feedback which suggested anyone was trying to distort the results. It was detailed and specific in a way that would be impossible to generate automatically.

Even if you dismiss the evidence of overwhelming local opposition to the LTNs provided by CAMTAG and Commonplace there are other indications that support that this is the true position. The huge demonstration, the massively higher number of people signing the anti-LTN petition compared to the pro one. Personally I seem to constantly be coming across anecdotal evidence that the LTNs have very little support such as the strong views expressed in my neighbourhood WhatsApp group and the unanimous hostility to the schemes of the local friends I finally got to meet up with for lunch at the weekend.

I did ask you earlier for any evidence you could provide to counter the body of data that is pointing towards massive opposition to LTNs among the people they are supposed to benefit. The only thing that Better Ealing Streets has been able to come up with is non-localised surveys which show that people are in favour of the idea of LTNs. This tells us nothing about the shade of opinion on LTN21.

There is no dispute from me that we need to reduce the number of vehicles on the road but any measure has to consider the elasticity of demand for driving. If the vast majority of journeys are non-substitutable then by making them longer you will end up with more vehicles on the road at any given point in time. There doesn't seem to have been any robust research on the breakdown of London traffic by purpose of journey but the data that we have points to short trips by private cars making up a small proportion of the vehicle miles travelled in London in any given day. It seems highly likely therefore that the LTNs are increasing traffic and congestion overall.

I believe that the evidence points to there being massive opposition and that this is primarily a result, not of selfish drivers unhappy about inconvenience, but that people in Ealing, every bit as committed to safer streets and cleaner air as you, recognise that LTNs are making things worse not better.







Entire Thread
TopicDate PostedPosted By
Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 18:53:00 Paul James
   Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 19:28:00 Simon Hayes
      Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 19:31:00 Paul James
   Reply21/04/21 19:31:00 Gordon Southwell
      Re:Reply21/04/21 19:52:00 Simon Hayes
   Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:04:00 Peter Yale
      Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:12:00 Paul James
         Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:14:00 Simon Hayes
            Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:17:00 N V Brooks
               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:19:00 Paul James
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:25:00 Peter Yale
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:30:00 N V Brooks
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:33:00 Simon Hayes
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:54:00 N V Brooks
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday21/04/21 20:57:00 Simon Hayes
                              Reply21/04/21 21:43:00 Gordon Southwell
                                 Re:Reply21/04/21 22:15:00 N V Brooks
                                    Re:Re:Reply21/04/21 23:15:00 Simon Hayes
                                       Re:Re:Re:Reply21/04/21 23:28:00 Colin Goodman
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 07:16:00 Mark Evans
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 09:03:00 Simon Hayes
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 09:31:00 Mark Evans
                                       Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 09:45:00 Paul James
                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 09:48:00 Simon Hayes
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 10:15:00 Keith Iddon
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:07:00 Kevin Wilson
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 13:11:00 N V Brooks
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 10:21:00 Paul James
                                                Reply22/04/21 10:32:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                   Re:Reply22/04/21 11:29:00 Paul James
                                                      Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 11:39:00 N V Brooks
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 12:00:00 Paul James
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 14:56:00 N V Brooks
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 11:46:00 Paul James
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:06:00 N V Brooks
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:14:00 Paul James
                                                                        Reply23/04/21 12:26:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:39:00 N V Brooks
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:43:00 Paul James
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:51:00 N V Brooks
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 13:00:00 Paul James
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 13:02:00 N V Brooks
                                                                                       Reply23/04/21 14:14:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Reply30/04/21 19:05:00 Philippa Bond
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply01/05/21 14:50:00 N V Brooks
                                                      Reply22/04/21 12:02:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:22:00 Simon Hayes
                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:38:00 Paul James
                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:47:00 Simon Hayes
                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 07:34:00 Paul James
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 07:53:00 Simon Hayes
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 08:20:00 Mark Evans
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 08:27:00 Simon Hayes
                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 09:19:00 Paul James
                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 10:10:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 11:23:00 Paul James
                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 11:48:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:07:00 Paul James
                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:34:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:47:00 Paul James
                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 12:57:00 N V Brooks
                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply23/04/21 14:09:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 08:10:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 08:36:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 09:21:00 Paul James
                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 09:22:00 Paul James
                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply24/04/21 09:49:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 07:35:00 Paul James
                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 07:50:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 08:11:00 Paul James
                                                                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 08:45:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                         Reply25/04/21 08:46:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                                                            Re:Reply26/04/21 12:09:00 Paul James
                                                                                                               Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 12:55:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 13:34:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 14:50:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 15:10:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 15:17:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 15:22:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 15:36:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 16:49:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                               Reply26/04/21 15:51:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                                                                  Re:Reply26/04/21 16:07:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
                                                                                                                  Re:Reply26/04/21 17:15:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                     Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 17:24:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                     Reply26/04/21 17:42:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                                                                        Re:Reply27/04/21 09:49:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                           Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 10:10:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 10:21:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 10:57:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                           Reply27/04/21 12:44:00 Gordon Southwell
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 13:41:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 13:44:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 13:46:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 13:56:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 14:00:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 14:02:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 16:53:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
                                                                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 17:58:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                              Re:Reply27/04/21 14:04:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 15:07:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 16:11:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 16:12:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 16:54:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 17:05:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 17:18:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 21:33:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 22:37:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 23:16:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply28/04/21 12:11:00 Paul James
                                                                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply28/04/21 12:17:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply28/04/21 22:44:00 Rosco White
                                                                                                                     Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 17:47:00 Simon Hayes
                                                                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Reply27/04/21 10:42:00 Paul James
                                                                                                            Re:Reply26/04/21 15:38:00 Paul James
                                                                                                               Re:Re:Reply26/04/21 16:28:00 Simon Hayes
   Re:Extremely Misleading News Headline on EalingToday22/04/21 12:06:00 Paul James
      Reply22/04/21 12:19:00 Gordon Southwell
         Re:Reply22/04/21 12:35:00 Peter Chadburn
            Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 13:00:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
               Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 14:59:00 N V Brooks
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 16:16:00 Simon Hayes
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 16:24:00 Mark Evans
                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply22/04/21 16:41:00 Simon Hayes
                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Reply25/04/21 17:51:00 Mark Evans
                              Re: Bel and LTNs27/04/21 22:32:00 Leslie Bailey
   Reply28/04/21 15:50:00 Christine Mulligan
      Come on Paul James!28/04/21 19:08:00 Simon Hayes
         Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 07:55:00 Tricia Arbuthnot
            Re:Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 11:18:00 N V Brooks
               Re:Re:Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 13:47:00 Rosco White
                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 15:19:00 Simon Hayes
                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Come on Paul James!29/04/21 17:54:00 Rosco White
                        Re:Come on Paul James!30/04/21 14:08:00 Simon Hayes

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