the "marketplace" has given us:
1. PFI Contracts that screw the taxpayer. I agree. There's no disputing this - Labour wasted c£60Bn on building white elephants - new hospitals that were too big for the needs of the local area, cost too much to run and in many cases are already no longer needed due to the ongoing move to provision of more services in community settings. Having said that, this largely reflect the general public’s obsession with buildings and an unwillingness to focus on the services. We’d rather have nice shiny hospitals that we don’t actually need rather than closing down hospitals we don’t need and investing the savings into better community services - and we won’t listen to politicians, clinicians or evidence that tells us this is daft.
2. But ...the marketplace has given us the proof that it's possible to complete more procedures at lower cost without compromising outcomes. Until this happened the professions were adamant this was not possible and as such, have had to find ways of improving their productivity. Since the use of private sector provision, waiting times have come down largely because surgeons have to spend more time in surgery rather than "training" (although many still spend 1/4 of their time undertaking "training").
2. The private companies haven't "cherry picked" - they have been asked to bid for limited contracts and have largely delivered similar (or in many cases improved) clinical outcomes for the same cost but without access to “free” working capital and a 40 year of investment in real estate. Importantly, they also pay all their own staff costs, unlike the NHS which doesn't currently pay the c40% effective "employers contribution" to staff pensions - this is paid for centrally and thus serves to make the NHS much more expensive (at least 25%) than the private sector when these costs are taken into account.
3. "Manager being paid what they would recieve in commercial work but still counting paperclips" is a nice story that you'd expect to read in the Daily Mail but doesn't reflect the reality, which is that only 4% of NHS Staff are managers (compared to 10+ in most organisations). Of these, 50% are actually senior clinicians working in managerial roles - clinicians are paid substantially more than managers (£110k for GPs, £150-£270K for Consultants, £115K ish for a chief nurse) and thus drive up the "average" management cost.
4. “- amongst that there have been the usual advances but these would have happened anyway.” The fact the activity rates hadn’t improved for the best part of 20 years until private sector provision was used is ample evidence that the “usual advances” don’t happen in the NHS due to the overwhelming inertia and vested interests of the professions / trade unions.
“the only way to reform the health service is to totally remove all of that marketplace crap and get back to making people well again. doctors and nurses, physios, etc.. the only glimmer in the current health reforms is the role mof doctors. however the commissioning is much as labour would have done in carving up amongst us healthcare companies. so labour or tory no real substantial differenc”
Again, this is a nice Daily Mail story but a quick look at the facts doesn’t support it. The “marketplace” has given us reduced waiting times and improved outcomes at reduced cost. The US healthcare companies are certainly not “carving up” anything – perfectly illustrated by the fact that one of the biggest; Humana, is shutting down its UK operations because they can’t actually build a going concern against a backdrop of NHS Trusts who take years to take simple decisions and Commissioning Managers who are proven to restrict patients legally protected choice of provided in order to protect the vested interests of other NHS colleagues.
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| Topic | Date Posted | Posted By |
| Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 11/04/11 12:16:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 13/04/11 08:49:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 16/04/11 23:16:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 16/04/11 23:17:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 19/04/11 11:50:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 10:05:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 10:31:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 10:58:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 11:13:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 11:38:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 12:00:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 12:09:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 12:08:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 12:23:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 13:33:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 13:59:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 20/04/11 14:14:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 21/04/11 09:45:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 21/04/11 15:00:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 21/04/11 17:27:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 21/04/11 17:49:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 23/04/11 21:50:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 24/04/11 10:15:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 24/04/11 12:55:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 24/04/11 10:13:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 24/04/11 20:32:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 25/04/11 09:20:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 25/04/11 09:36:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 25/04/11 10:54:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 26/04/11 00:20:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 01/05/11 10:00:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 01/05/11 10:44:00 | Allison Franklin |
| Re:Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 09/05/11 11:39:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 12/05/11 08:00:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 12/05/11 23:49:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 17/05/11 09:45:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 18/05/11 19:34:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 19/05/11 23:42:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 29/05/11 11:54:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 01/06/11 14:21:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Monitor's new year-on-year cuts for Trusts | 01/06/11 16:02:00 | George Knox |
| Private companies and the NHS | 03/06/11 19:51:00 | George Knox |
| Re:Private companies and the NHS | 04/06/11 11:01:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Private companies and the NHS | 09/06/11 23:48:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Private companies and the NHS | 10/06/11 09:45:00 | Ed Yelland |
| Re:Re:Private companies and the NHS | 10/06/11 11:01:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Council care homes less efficient -Yelland | 10/06/11 19:21:00 | Allison Franklin |
| Re:Council care homes less efficient -Yelland | 10/06/11 21:24:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 10/06/11 23:53:00 | Nigel Brooks |
| Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 11/06/11 11:25:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 13/06/11 09:37:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 15/06/11 07:28:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 18/06/11 12:08:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 18/06/11 15:30:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 09/07/11 15:38:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 18/07/11 19:50:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 22/07/11 08:06:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 01/08/11 12:30:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 05/08/11 08:35:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 26/08/11 23:23:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 02/09/11 08:21:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 02/09/11 08:50:00 | Phil Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 02/09/11 08:58:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 02/09/11 09:23:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Southern Cross and the NHS in Ealing | 02/09/11 09:59:00 | Tony Wood |
| 38degrees is a Social Democratic campaigning organisation | 02/09/11 10:17:00 | Phil Taylor |
| Re:38degrees is a Social Democratic campaigning organisation | 02/09/11 10:26:00 | Tony Wood |
| Re:Re:38degrees is a Social Democratic campaigning organisation | 02/09/11 10:52:00 | Tony Wood |
| Re:Re:Re:38degrees is a Social Democratic campaigning organisation | 02/09/11 11:35:00 | Phil Taylor |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:38degrees is a Social Democratic campaigning organisation | 02/09/11 12:08:00 | Tony Wood |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:38degrees is a Social Democratic campaigning organisation | 02/09/11 14:27:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Polly Toynbee article on NHS Bill from Guardian 2.9.11 | 02/09/11 20:02:00 | Allison Franklin |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:38degrees is a Social Democratic campaigning organisation | 03/09/11 12:53:00 | Tony Wood |
| Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 02/09/11 22:12:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Stop the Killing of Our Free Public Health Service | 03/09/11 09:57:00 | Arthur Breens |
| The Observer, 4.9.11 - Shirley Williams last attempt at getting our attention | 04/09/11 07:45:00 | Allison Franklin |
| Shirley Williams article, The Observer, 4.9.11 | 04/09/11 07:59:00 | Allison Franklin |
| Re:Shirley Williams article, The Observer, 4.9.11 | 06/09/11 22:52:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Shirley Williams article, The Observer, 4.9.11 | 06/09/11 23:03:00 | Peter Chadburn |
| Re:Re:Re:Shirley Williams article, The Observer, 4.9.11 | 07/09/11 12:16:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:Re:Shirley Williams article, The Observer, 4.9.11 | 25/10/11 15:28:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| BMA have opposed every NHS reform | 25/10/11 19:30:00 | Phil Taylor |
| Re:BMA have opposed every NHS reform | 26/10/11 00:29:00 | Arthur Breens |
| Re:Re:BMA have opposed every NHS reform | 26/10/11 07:20:00 | Phil Taylor |
| Re:BMA have opposed every NHS reform | 26/10/11 00:31:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:BMA have opposed every NHS reform | 26/10/11 08:00:00 | Allison Franklin |
| Re:Re:Re:BMA have opposed every NHS reform | 26/10/11 08:30:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Re:BMA have opposed every NHS reform | 26/10/11 12:47:00 | Phil Taylor |
| Jenny Tonge ashamed of the Lib Dems | 26/10/11 19:31:00 | Allison Franklin |
| Re:Jenny Tonge ashamed of the Lib Dems | 26/10/11 19:54:00 | Eric Alan Leach |
| Re:Re:Jenny Tonge ashamed of the Lib Dems | 27/10/11 08:12:00 | Arthur Breens |